Triumph Engines and Ethanol

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  • #42425
    GlenC
    Member
    #42426
    GlenC
    Member

    Anyone had any experience yet, or word on what effect ethanol blended fuels might have on Trumpy engines, carbs, fuel pumps and tanks?

    I read somewhere that brass doesn’t like ethanol, so maybe SU’s will be affected, and someone else said something about older steel petrol tanks and rubber fuel lines springing leaks.

    Some servos aren’t even notifying motorists if there’s ethanol in their fuels, and I don’t want to bugger up my engine!

    Cheers, Glen.

    #42427
    Greeks
    Member

    I asked the same question on the Club Triumph forum and the response wasn’t exactly conclusive… but I found this, although it doesn’t relate to old cars http://www.racefuels.com.au/newsDetail.asp?ID=59

    I was going to contact the people at Shell through the website to ask them the question … I just haven’t done yet

    #42428
    NickJones
    Member

    Did a bit of unintentional research on this today when I filled the the nearly empty tank of my Vitesse with E85 (85% ethanol) which a certain supermarket chain has just begun selling in the UK.

    It didn’t like it. Ran very badly, as if extremly lean. Lots of spitting back and hitching and no power at all. Barely driveable. As Ethanol requires a much richer mix I guess this is unsurprising.

    This being the EFI Vitesse I was briefly tempted to drag out the laptop and have a play, (if I still had carbs I could have just pulled out the choke!) but in the end commonsense prevailed and I mostly drained the tank and refilled with standard 95 unleaded. It seems to have forgiven me, but if I spring any leaks or suffer any fuel system failures in the next few weeks I shall blame it on this.

    Certainly ethanol is can attack many types of rubber. Viton is one of those most resistant. I wouldn’t have thought metals would be an issue though.

    I wonder if I had been still running standard carbs and ignition whether it would have run at all.

    So don’t try this at home – I already did so you don’t have to!

    Nick

    #42429
    Greeks
    Member

    Oh dear, that doesn’t sound too helpful!
    Thanks for being the Guinea Pig though Nick

    E85 ? shouldn’t that be 15% ethanol?
    The only one i’ve seen in Queensland is the Shell one, and that claims to be 100 Octane and either 10 or 5% ethanol

    #42430
    GlenC
    Member

    From what I’m seeing on the news the plan is to continue with a run-out of 5% ethanol fuel at about 5c a litre cheaper than regular unleaded across Queensland anyway.

    Federally they’re hoping for 1% alternative fuel use overall within a couple of years, and eventually 10%. There’s ben a couple of current affair programs about servos selling the stuff and not telling anyone what’s going into their tanks though.

    The bit about brass I got from an article about a bloke who converted a 1920’s car to run on pure ethanol in a rally, but he had to replace the carbie and all brass fuel lines first.

    Peace, Glen.

    #42431
    NickJones
    Member

    I reckon that 5%, 10% even 15% would not be a problem. I must still be running around 10% and it’s going fine again. Changed th efuel filter this morning just in case.

    Couple of interesting links (been doing my homework). Interestingly there seems to bee some disagreement about what materials might get attacked.

    http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id26.html

    http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib … h/me2.html

    If I can resolve the materials issues I may have another go with it under controlled conditions and remap to suit and use megasquirt to create my own flex fuel vehicle.

    Nick

    #42432
    britishcarfreak
    Keymaster

    Slightly off topic but I’d been told that anyone running a PI (Lucas) will need to fully replace and seals etc throughout the whole system as modern unleaded fuels just kill them. I had my system fully reconditioned by Greg Tunstall in Queensland and the re did all the seals in something new as standard practice. Perhaps this is going to be ok for me then with ethanol fuels – but I don’t think this was their primary reasoning.

    #42433
    RobbinsBM
    Member

    Hi Glen,

    I had problems with my PI when NZ changed from leaded to unleaded petrol in the mid ’90’s. It seems the aromatics in the unleaded fuel give the old seals a hard time. I ended up replacing every seal between the tank and the injector tips.

    Interestingly enough, it seemed to be the mix of leaded and unleaded petrol (during the change over of the service station tanks) that did the damage. A friend who has his car laid up and refilled the tank with unleaded fuel some months after it’s introduction has had not problems whatsoever.

    Regards
    Bernard

    #42434
    Greeks
    Member

    I’ve just done 350km on Evolve E95 (i’m presuming this means 5% ethanol), with no discernible bad effects on economy or power.

    #42435
    NickJones
    Member

    That’s brave! Should be ok though I think. Might want to change the fuel filters after a bit as ethanol is a very effective disolver of ancient deposits.

    My Honda mower is still running on E85 (85% ethanol) without any adjustment whatsoever. Is quite reluctant to start from cold and does not idle but otherwise fine. Bizzarely it has stopped smoking – was like pushing a bonfire around! Perhaps it has unstuck the rings or something?!

    Maybe that also explains why the Vitesse burns more oil than it used to – the rings are shot and the carbon deposits that were doing the job are gone?? (Yeah I know these two theories are at odds with each other….)

    Nick

    #42436
    Greeks
    Member

    Interesting Nick.
    The weirdest thing about me filling it up with Ethanol was that I did so at the stupidest possible time … on the way to the airport (which was 250km away) to catch a flight for a job interview in Tasmania of all places.
    Only once I was home did I think E95 … that could have been 95% ethanol I could have NickJonesed!!

    I’ll have a look at the filter.

    First up is fit those Datsun shafts (there’ll be something coming on the blog soon … i.e. when it gets a bit quiet at work today)

    #42437
    britishcarfreak
    Keymaster

    Greeks, where was the job? North or South?

    I’d really like some Datsun shafts – can anyone help me get some or at least the remachined bits so I can build some?

    There’s a guy locally with a pile of shafts and he told me two years ago he’d get them sorted so I could buy a pair – but – still waiting.

    #42438
    Greeks
    Member

    britishcarfreak – I’ll be based in Hobart … so there’ll be a membership application coming sometime in December.

    We had a good look at the shafts and best options to machine, and it seemed like buying the Tri/Dat UJs from GTM was pretty good value at about $95 inc. GST, each. I bought 5 so there’s a spare to use as a pattern if ever GTM stop stocking them.
    Good luck.

    #42439
    britishcarfreak
    Keymaster

    Great – you can email me about suburb info etc. if you want.

    I know a local fitter and turner with half a dozen shafts under his house – if you could lend me the spare I’d be happy

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