EFI Triumphs

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #43613
    Glen
    Keymaster

    Site Administrator,
    AKA Glen Johnson from Hobart Tasmania.
    Owner of :
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/2500-s-2-7l-pi/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/spitfire-4-mk1/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/stag-mk2-3/

    #43614
    Glen
    Keymaster

    Hi
    Listed this post out of interest following a reply from Nick Jones to my (automaticly site enforced) vehicle blog.

    How many other Triumph cars out there on EFI or even using the most magnificent 3D mapped ignition on it’s own ?
    My own Gt6 runs on DTA’s E48EXP, Nick is using Megasquirt.
    My conversion is a few years old now. The ECU researched and bought before I had even heard of Megasquirt, but no complaints in fact the opposite.

    I do know of other Triumphs on EFI, with Megasquirt in particular getting very popular on various breeds. Even some Triumphs running on Bosch Motronic conversions. Though granted the Motronic system is not (EASILY) programmable.
    Still an EFI conversion.

    Anybody currently converting or thinking of it ? As there are those of us out there who can assist with the do’s and do not’s of this stuff.
    Ths stuff is not a black art as some would have you believe, but it does involve a learning process (Megasquirt in particular) requires getting away from carb and distributor thinking. BUT SO WORTH IT ALL !

    Come on guys, Who else out there ?

    Laurence Cochrane

    Site Administrator,
    AKA Glen Johnson from Hobart Tasmania.
    Owner of :
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/2500-s-2-7l-pi/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/spitfire-4-mk1/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/stag-mk2-3/

    #43615
    NickJones
    Member

    Yes, bring them on! I know there’s more than 2 of us, especially among the TR6 boys.

    It’s not that hard to do – I managed it – and as Laurance says, it is very much worth the effort.

    Nick

    #43616
    Glen
    Keymaster

    How sad is this Nick ?
    The two of us discussing EFI alone using a forum based on the opposite side of the planet from us both.
    ANYWAY !
    First bit of food for thought.

    The big supprise for me with the EFI conversion was that despite being built to be a brute. My Gt6 is TOTALLY docile in traffic, idle’s at 600 rpm, pulls from nothing and driven properly even fairly economical.

    Power, tractability and fuel economy ? Yup thats modern engine management !

    I allways knew that engine management tamed hairy cams. I did not realise just how much.
    All that back pulsing that carbs really hate, engine management does not even take under its notice.

    Having said all that.
    She can bite like a crocodile with a headache (Autotests are a nightmare) and drink her share. Though definitly not as thirsty as you would expect, even when used very very hard.
    I AM CONVINCED !

    Anyone contemplating such a conversion look at both my Gt6 and Nicks Vitesse. You will notice I use the PI’s throttle bodies Nick made a manifold and plenum.
    For a road car PI bodies do create a problem, these have too much throttle 6×45 mm, creates low throttle mapping difficulties.
    My own car will pull 70 mph with throttle between 0% and not reaching 1% "A bit of creative mapping at first throttle line (0%, throttle closed) makes it work".
    Wo’nt go into too much further detail, it will confuse.

    Well okay then.

    Unused but available rev range on maps compressed (14000 rpm reduced to 8000 rpm) to increase effective map resoloution, excess resoloution then biased towards low speed control.
    Custom throttle position lines biased towards low throttle control, specificly throttle position 1 (0%) and throttle position 2 (1%). On throttle position 1 fuel increases with rpm. These changes were made because normaly throttle position 1 is set at 1%.
    At 0% "throttle fully closed" a specificly set injector pulse width for idle should take over.
    Mine will drive before even 1% throttle is reached.

    FOLLOWING ?

    Nick will understand that stuff even though he did’nt have the situation.

    As previously stated there is a learning process required!

    But smaller throttles, lower tune, lower capacity, more weight, (more load) would be better on a road car.

    WHERE IS THE FUN IN ALL THAT ?
    Did’nt build the car this way with the intent of being sensible.
    That’s a thing I am very rarely accused of, being sensible!

    Nicks large single body is a better way to go, for a road car.
    However I believe It is not nessesary to go to the extent of makeing up a manifold and plenum as Triumph allready did the most of this on the PI.
    What about removing throttle spindles and pluging the holes, welding a flange to mount a single large body on the end of the PIs tubular air box ?
    Of course all the rubber hoses would need to be fully cliped and sealed.
    (Personaly I feel this method would work well with the PI system too.
    "Did the Gt6 PI thing long time back")

    There is allways the cheque book option of Jenvey or Weber throttle bodies
    (Not larger than 40’s).

    There is nothing carved in stone with these conversions and a lot of different ways of doing one, eg converting carburetors into throttle bodies, drilling 36-1 pattern onto flywheel with sensor mounted in engine plate, mounting injectors directly onto the cylinder head above the ports using shallow pockets, as Ford did with the pinto engine.

    I have not even brushed on 3D ignition yet on this post as it is an amazing subject all on its own so if planing on an ECU.
    Do’nt just get fuel only !

    3D ignition only. 3D ignition with carburetors ? Absoloutly !

    Apart from the money involved, the major difference between going out and buying a complete kit and DIY is the DIY’s learning process and the self satisfaction of having learnt it and done it.
    The uninformed will look at you and talk about you as if you had just invented the wheel.

    Laurence

    Anybody ?

    Site Administrator,
    AKA Glen Johnson from Hobart Tasmania.
    Owner of :
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/2500-s-2-7l-pi/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/spitfire-4-mk1/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/stag-mk2-3/

    #43617
    RobbinsBM
    Member

    Hi Laurence and Nick,

    I’m planning to EFI my 2500PI sometime in the next two years. Partly because I’m interested in doing it myself, and partly because the PI system is getting harder and harder to service.

    I would like to get the benefits of an EFI system, but also retain a fairly close to original look. The idea being that someone casually glancing at the engine won’t realise it’s EFI instead of Lucas PI.

    Progress to date:
    I’ve been able to get a Link computer which does both fuel and ignition (and will even work with my Lumenition). I’ve a spare set of PI manifolds machined to take EFI injectors (which I’ve sourced from the old 6cyl Toyota Supra).

    The next steps will be a bit slow due to lack of time and money. Hopefully I’ll be in a position to assemble it in the new year.

    I’m sure I’ll have a lot more questions for you chaps then.

    In the meantime:

    1. Using the PI throttle bodies – How did you seal the injectors to prevent airleaks?

    2. What did you chaps do about fuel pumps? I’m wondering if I can use my existing PI fuel pump and just wind the pressure down to 35PSI. Again, this would be nice from an originality point of view.

    3. How did you make up your fuel rail? What materials? What fittings?

    Thanks in advance
    Bernard

    #43618
    Glen
    Keymaster

    Hi Guys,

    Thought I’d join in as I have been surfing for the pass few months looking for EFi bits and kits to do exactly the same as Bernard (plus I’m a born and bred Kapiti Boy).

    In this quest (and the quest for a better drive train) I purchased a complete R30 Skyline coupe (if you are a Nissan fan look away now) and took it to bits, not only will the diff fit (R200 long nose), the gear box is also very close, oh and the rear discs. Anyway the EFi system yielded some useful bits (as I have never worked on EFi cars before it was all new), including the ECU, loom and injector clamps that hold the injector to the throttle body, which seal on an o-ring (I have also used the standard PI body). The fuel rail you can purchase in stock lengths (with different profiles to suit the flow rate you require etc) that you get machined to suit.

    I have also heard that the standard Holden (GM) 3.8 litre V6 injector is a good one to use.

    How much further have you gotten Bernard?

    Adam

    Site Administrator,
    AKA Glen Johnson from Hobart Tasmania.
    Owner of :
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/2500-s-2-7l-pi/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/spitfire-4-mk1/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/stag-mk2-3/

    #43619
    RobbinsBM
    Member

    Hi Adam,

    Very interesting about the skyline driveline bits. I wonder if this would be a cheap way to get an LSD…

    I’ve not made much progress – we’ve just moved house and I’ve not set the workshop up yet (well not properly).

    In terms of progress, I’ve basically assembled most of the bits I need. I’ve got injectors from a Toyota Supra 2.8 (the old wedge shape), a link ecu, and other miscellaneous bits like pressure regulator from an R31 Skyline.

    My PI has been off the road for about five years in dry storage while I worked on two other projects (my wifes TC and my TR6 both of which are now sold). My first step is to get the old girl back on the road and running reliably (no doubt after sitting for that long the wheel bearings and a whole lot of other things will have had their lives shortened). After that, I’ll need to figure out how I’m going to continue the restoration.

    The body and interior are in excellent condition, but the paint work is very average (lots of heat cracking on the bonet etc). The motor is tired (not stuffed, just lost that edge). I’m still in two minds as to how I proceed after I get her on the road – do I strip the interior and mechanicals and do the body/paint, or do I do the mechanicals (incl EFI) and do the body work later. I guess ultimately the decision will depend on the piggy bank.

    But that’s more than enough about me. What about you?
    What part of the world are you in?
    What type of Triumph have you got?
    How long have had it?

    Regards
    Bernard

    #43620
    NickJones
    Member

    Bernard, Adam,

    One of the best way to learn about EFI is to spend time (quite alot of time) browsing the Megasquirt website.

    http://www.msefi.com

    Even if you choose another ECU in the end there is so much information here on all aspects of the process that it should be possible to answer any question you may have.

    I put some information about my own conversion on my website

    http://www.tengaston.plus.com

    and another place to look is Paul Teglers site

    http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/index.html

    The bottom line is that it is not rocket science and there is a huge amount of perfectly useable hardware lying around in scrapyards.

    I really enjoyed the whole process – building the Megasquirt ECU, fabricating the manifold, and the fact that the thing actually works and has been totally reliable for 2 years now still gives a buzz whenever I drive the car. It took a while to do but it was worth it.

    Go for it…..

    Nick

    #43621
    Glen
    Keymaster

    Hello…….Is anyone still out there???????

    I am starting to look into this Megasquirt stuff for my GT6 (TR6 PI engine).
    Have spoken/typed to Nick and Scott (thanks guys!) and would like to hear from anyone else who has gone down this "black magic" passage, especially if you have used the original PI manifold.
    Many thanks,
    Doug

    Site Administrator,
    AKA Glen Johnson from Hobart Tasmania.
    Owner of :
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/2500-s-2-7l-pi/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/spitfire-4-mk1/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/stag-mk2-3/

    #46649
    BillyB62
    Participant

    Ok guys – I’m in!  I’m just starting to do research on this, but pretty sure it will be another one of my winter projects for my TR3A…..instead of throwing money at a professional rebuild ($500) or a rebuild kid ($150) just so can continue to fight with my SU’s.  I like the reliability thing that EFI brings and as for the purists saying I’m devaluing my car – well, its not original anyway.  I’ve been reading everything I can on converting and even contacted Scot Abbot (the MG guy that has a lot posted on his conversion) so I’ll begin to gather parts soon.  I’d prefer the more stealthier look that I’ve seen and just bought another set of carbs that will act as the donor.

    Any help and/or advice you can give is appreciated.

    Bill

    #46666
    Glen
    Keymaster

    This is a pretty old post… sadly gotten very quiet around here after the site went down earlier this year.  If you post your discoveries I’d be keen to see how you go.  Good luck.

    Site Administrator,
    AKA Glen Johnson from Hobart Tasmania.
    Owner of :
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/2500-s-2-7l-pi/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/spitfire-4-mk1/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/stag-mk2-3/

    #46667
    BillyB62
    Participant

    I’ve decided to use Megasquirt as my EMU so I am in the process of studying about that technology.  Megasquirt is a DIY solution and there is a fairly big learning curve if you want others advice (the people don’t want to do it for you).  I’ve stripped my donor carbs and trying to understand which injectors will work best.  More to come as I travel further down the path.

    #47240
    Rod
    Participant

    two there are always(Yoda) OK there may be three of us. I know a bloke here in melbourne who can supply all the hardware including injectors. The ECU comes from a very common VN Holden Commodore and is simply remapped. Been done to a TR6 (I think. my details are all second hand) anyway supposedly comes in under $2000 (AUD) anyway am contemplating this as the HS6’s are badly worn in the damper pots which of course are unobtanium. all else is fixable however. any advice (helpful) sought
    cheers
    Rod

    #47241
    Rod
    Participant

    further to last post, this is not a throttle body conversion, best to use a PI injector manifold.
    Rod

    #47263
    Glen
    Keymaster

    It’d be great to see you do the conversion but if you need hs6 dashpots or full carbs. I have a complete set I don’t need under the house. Happy to part with them for a small cost.

    Site Administrator,
    AKA Glen Johnson from Hobart Tasmania.
    Owner of :
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/2500-s-2-7l-pi/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/spitfire-4-mk1/
    //www.triumphowners.com/to-car/stag-mk2-3/

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